A Conversation Between Jesus and Descartes

A.C. Ham, weary from a long week of work, sat down between two well-known historical figures to record their conversation on a day that ended in the letter “y” sometime after a summer holiday. One of these figures was a recurring guest: Jesus of Nazareth, the supposed son of a carpenter and actual Son of God. The other was a philosopher known as Descartes. Ham couldn’t help but note that his haircut looked like that of Farquaad as the two guests began to talk. 

[Begin transcript] 

Descartes: Jesus of Nazareth! I'm so excited to finally get the chance to speak with You. 

Jesus: The feeling is mutual, Rene. I assume you have many questions you’d like to ask. Let's start with the first, shall we? 

Descartes smiles deeply. 

D: Tell me, how can we know what is real and what is our mind? 

J: Ah, starting strong! What leads you to doubt your mind and the reality it perceives? 

D: I find little reason to call it true. If it weren’t for my own thoughts prompting me to trust that I do exist, I wouldn’t be sure if I was even real.  

J: Sounds like your head is a hard place to navigate, my friend. Tell me, if there was an apple on the table, would it be real? 

D: Perhaps. But maybe my mind is hallucinating it, or it is merely a painting of one that rests upon the table. 

J: What if you could touch it? If you were able to take a bite and taste it, would you know if it was real then? 

D: Theoretically. But if I did the same in a dream, certainly that apple and the taste I had perceived are no more real than the mirage upon the hot road. 

J: True. What if someone else came along and took a bite from the same apple? If they could attest to tasting it, would it be real? 

D: Almost certainly. 

J: Then perhaps a thing is real when it doesn’t depend on us or our thoughts to exist. 

Descartes ponders here for a moment. 

D: But what if I made up that person too? What if it was our minds making it up instead of a genuine apple? 

J: My friend, we could “what if” all day. How does a person know that I am who I say I am? 

D: By trusting the testimony of the ones who saw You. 

J: And what would we call that? 

D: Faith. 

J: (Smiling) Exactly. You, however, didn’t meet me while I was here on earth. How did you realize I was real? 

D: Discovered You by reason. This world must have a cause, which calls for a Cause-er. And since man has an idea of true perfection, there must be Someone who is truly perfect.  

Jesus doesn’t reply, simply nods His understanding. Descartes continues. 

D: Just as a triangle must have three sides to be a triangle, a Creator must exist because everything else was created. 

J: So what reasoning is there for your body to be real? 

Descartes pauses, considering the prompt for a moment. 

D: In order to be on earth, I needed a vessel. To partake in the things of this world, to supposedly see all it has to offer and taste the fruit of its soil, I had to have a body. 

J: And why would I require you to have a body? 

D: To do your work among those who also walk this earth, to share how they can reasonably say You exist. If I didn’t have a body, I wouldn’t be able to relate to them, just as You wouldn’t have had your ministry here if You hadn’t taken on flesh. 

J: Nor would I have been able to complete my job here on earth. 

D: It’s not a very certain knowledge. 

J: But it’s hope for what we’ve yet to see and an assurance that it is real.  

D: Right. And we call it faith. 

J: Yes, my friend. Faith. 

[End of Transcript]